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Blood Bowl ABBL Rules Discussion

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#1 Gaixo

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Posted 04 January 2009 - 08:52 PM

I've heard was some talk about resetting the league for the upcoming season, so I thought I'd ask for opinions on that matter and also see if anyone was interested in shifting to LRB 6 before it goes official. So...here are the issues up for discussion:

1) Resetting the league
The argument is that it's hard to attract new players because they're scared to play bigger teams. My only real issue with this argument is that I'm not hearing it from prospective players. Of course, I'm not hearing anything from prospective players, so what do I know? I do think that my team is at the point where it's turning into a casualty machine and I can tell that it's been a drag for my last few opponents, but I suppose I could just resolve that problem by just retiring them without being forced to. Another (somewhat) easy compromise would be to retire all teams above 1,250,000 (or whatever), so the guys who just started a team wouldn't be forced to start over.

2) LRB 6
Here are the projected changes for the next edition of the LRB, which is projected to be the last for a very long time:
http://www.mediafire.com/?nxhqt5nnqew
Major changes include a changes to Diving Catch, Horns and Stunty (they don't die so easily). Also, Dwarves and Wood Elves take a slight "nerf" and Khemri are changed significantly (for the worse).

From what I understand, these are pretty likely to go through, so I thought I'd ask if anyone was interested in adopting them early.

3) New Races
Three new races: Chaos Pact, Slann and Underworld. Download here:
http://www.mediafire.com/?mm2zmzznjjm
Again, these have all been playtested and are pretty likely to be in the next LRB. I don't see a real problem with people using them, so long as no one else minds. Of course, it's a bit late to come up with the models to make a new team, but two of these can be easily constructed from models people may already have (and I hear Kroot make for good Slann conversions).


As things stand, none of these will happen going into this season. But if anyone wants to speak up and voice their support for any of these intitiatives, we can discuss it and make a vote if needed. If it does come down to a vote, I'll try and catch up with all of those not on the forum to get their opinions as well.

Don't forget the league meetings are this week. Virginia Beach* on Tuesday, Portsmouth on Wednesday, and Norfolk on Thursday. Try and show up by 8 PM if possible.

*Of course, there most likely won't be a conference in VB for the second straight season. I haven't checked the sheet in a couple of weeks, but the last time I saw it there were only three names and they all belonged to people who play in Norfolk too. It's a sad thing.


Edited by Gaixo, 16 April 2013 - 04:00 PM.


#2 Viking Mike

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 01:48 AM

I'm good with the revisions (not having to move in order to use horns on the blitz rules) and the new teams (even though they will not likely be played).

I'm in for all stores, traveler is my name, but I may have another commitment for this coming Thursday which may have me miss the meeting.

As for Va. Beach - I'd still play there in order to try and start sparking some interest there. Our games played there did have some positive reactions IIRC. ;)

Portsmouth - Xaos Xildren - chaos team
Virginia Beach - Norsca Vikings - norse team
Norfolk - The Darkness - skaven team

Oh, I've also got no problems with resetting the league. ;)

#3 Ralphriverrat

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 10:26 AM

I was planning on kicking the Striking Asp's to the curb anyway next season, so a league reset wouldn't bother me. But it wouldn't change my decision to play either way. For me part of the great allure of Blood Bowl is watching the "underdog" teams play against the experienced teams, builds up a rivalry and keeps the game fresh. Of course, it depends on the experienced coach to not slaughter a new teams players, especially if coached by a new to the game coach.

#4 Gaixo

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Posted 05 January 2009 - 12:27 PM

I may have another commitment for this coming Thursday which may have me miss the meeting.

As for Va. Beach - I'd still play there in order to try and start sparking some interest there. Our games played there did have some positive reactions IIRC. ;)

No problem on the meeting.

I'm going to check the VB sheet tomorrow afternoon, but if there aren't at least 4 teams I can't see it going forward. I'd like to maintain a presence there, as well, but I think there needs to be a minimum of participation.

#5 Viking Mike

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 01:13 AM

Don't forget that you can count yourself as a fourth. :ninja:

I'll see you tomorrow then.

#6 Kiri

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 02:23 AM

I read the LRB 5 Updates and new teams and I like both and am in favor of them being added to the League. I'm still undecided on whether or not the League should be reset, I don't think its needed and we haven't had a large amount of new players join yet.

#7 Gaixo

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 07:51 AM

Don't forget that you can count yourself as a fourth. :ninja:

I'll see you tomorrow then.

I'm the third!

I'll go up there around 1 and see if anyone else has signed up, then give the word here.

Edited by Gaixo, 06 January 2009 - 07:51 AM.


#8 Gaixo

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Posted 06 January 2009 - 03:47 PM

Well, the signup sheet was no longer there, so that makes things easy. Maybe next season, ACII.


As far as the items above, I'm going to go ahead and say that the league will be adopting the new rules and allowing the new teams. I will not be forcing teams to quit, but will recommend that any teams that have been around for more than a couple seasons or are worth more than 1.5 million just retire.

If you're keeping one of the teams that has been altered (Dwarves, Goblins, Khemri, Necromantic, Skaven, Undead, Wood Elf), bring your team into order with the new list. For example, a Dwarf coach with 3 rerolls would need to come up with 30,000 from his treasury to pay for their increase of 10,000 each, or give up one of his rerolls. On the other hand, a coach with a Rat Ogre would get a refund of 10,000 because they've become cheaper. The same things with skills and stats: if you have a Wood Elf team, all of your catchers lose a point of MA but gain Sprint. If they already have sprint (and I suppose they all will), immediately choose another non-doubles skill to replace it.

If all of that sounds too much like preparing a tax return, then give me your roster and I'll fix it up, or restart the team. Really, if you have an advanced team from that list above, my retirement recommendation is that much stronger.

Mike will be running the AC1 meeting tomorrow night, and I'll see the Norfolk coaches on Thursday.

#9 Kiri

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 07:51 AM

LRB5 changes of note (that means: pay attention!)

-You can now use an Apothecary on a KO'd player (pg 17)
-Changes to "Get the Ref" and "Riot" on the Kick-off table
-Changes to the Skills: Ball&Chain, Bombardier, Decay, Diving Catch, Diving Tackle, Dump-Off, Leap, Fumble, Shadowing, Stab, Stunty, and Tentacles
-New Skills: Animosity, Blood Lust
-Big Changes to the skill Horns
-Bribes: Now even cheaper for Goblins! (oh those dirty lickle goblins)
-Halfling Master Chef: Now insanely cheap for Halflings
-Brand new Star Players and price changes to many of them
-Various teams have sporadic but minor price changes or had the "stunty" ability added to them
-Wood Elf Catchers become even harder to catch

#10 Kiri

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 07:53 AM

I have a question for everyone.

Is it possible to permanently buy a Star Player and add him to your roster? And if not, why?


P.S. Another, totally unrelated question. Did the league decide to enact or enforce a time limit for a coach's turn? Or is it still casual about the time taken for your turn?

Edited by Kiri, 13 January 2009 - 08:11 AM.


#11 Gaixo

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 08:36 AM

Actually, they sort of slowed the Wood Elf catchers down. They can go the same number of spaces, but have to GFI one more time with Sprint. And because they already have Sprint, it will be more difficult to make one-turn scorers. Which is cool. Unless you're Dirk, haha.

You cannot permanently buy a Star Player (though there was a point when you could, maybe the original 3rd edition?). Even when you could buy them, they couldn't gain any further skills or anything, so they tended to hog SPPs that they couldn't use.

There are no formal time limits for turns in this league. I know that newer coaches sometimes take a while, but most people go quickly enough once they know what they're doing.

#12 Viking Mike

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:40 PM

To reinforce what the Commish said (as Deputy Commish in P-town I get to do that), the rules changed in fourth edition to eliminate permanently hiring Star Players onto a team. All star players now have a 'per game' hiring fee which is usually paid for with gold given to a team through the Incentives process.

However, that said, what you can do set aside gold in your Treasury and hire that Star Player for each game (or at least the first game) for your team. Gold is withdrawn from your Treasury as part of the Pre-Game Procedures and is added to your Team's Value before the comparison is made for Incentives to be awarded. Gold withdrawn from the Treasury is treated just the same as Incentive gold for use in buying Star Players or any other Incentive items (bribes, for example).

There is a warning for you if you choose to do this - if your opponent is crafty enough, and eligible to hire the same Star Player, he can also pay to have that player on his team. The rules state that when such a thing happens the Star Player takes all the gold and hot-foots it out of town and doesn't play for either team.

#13 Kiri

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 02:39 AM

Okay, even though theres no gobber teams I've got a question about the Goblin Fanatic. With that small addition to the Ball&Chain skill rule does it mean that a Goblin Fanatic MUST move ALL of its normal movement?

#14 Gaixo

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 07:48 AM

That's right. They're some unpredictable fellows.

There's that Skaven Plague Monk star player with Ball & Chain now, too, but you wouldn't have a chance of seeing him until the league final (Mike B's underworld team can take him).

#15 Viking Mike

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 05:44 PM

Yep, previous rule allowed the Ball & Chain guy to only go one space... very against the 'whirl-a-gig of doom' intention/design of the Fanatic.

Posted Image

And yes, it is too bad I retired The Darkness to start again... they could have taken the Plague Censer Bearer too. :)

Edited by Viking Mike, 15 January 2009 - 05:49 PM.


#16 Kiri

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Posted 15 January 2009 - 06:00 PM

*laughs* hahaha, thanks Mike. That was a very nice .gif you added into that last post ;D its rare to see a .gif actually related to the conversation being had.

#17 Viking Mike

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 12:42 AM

N/P amigo. :)

BTW: does anyone know how to contact Charles of the Tejas Templars?

I tried the e-mail with no response and calling the number given.

#18 Gaixo

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 07:47 AM

Hmm. Looking at the number again, the first three digits might be 440 instead of 446, if you want to try that. He's also in the store every Saturday for most of the day (he's the guy who was at the last Orcidas Challenge with blue beastmen). I plan to play tomorrow and I'll lean on him if he's in there. He's talked me up about his excitement regarding the league every time I go in the shop, so I'm surprised he hasn't been responsive.

Let me know if that number change works.

EDIT: Yeah, I'll definitely be up there tomorrow. If anyone else knows who Charles is and sees him, get him to call Mike.

Edited by Gaixo, 16 January 2009 - 01:58 PM.


#19 Viking Mike

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 03:15 PM

OK, now I remember him. I've got RPGs tonight and tomorrow. If you get the opportunity see if he's available on Sunday.

I'll also try to call him with the 'more better' number when I have a chance. :)

#20 dirkbraak

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Posted 16 January 2009 - 03:42 PM

he is at AC3 EVERY sat playing Mordheim with Rocky's group.. so i will give him a knock on the head tomorrow to get him to call u and check his contact number for accurecy...


dirk

#21 Gaixo

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 11:40 AM

To answer a question I didn't know the answer to at the shop yesterday:

You can NOT change the surface of your field once a season has begun. This decision was made prior to last season, but the charter hasn't been revised since then. After this season it might be a good idea for us to make a change so that you just pay a fee to change it between matches, but as things stand now you're stuck with whatever pitch you've been using so far.

#22 Viking Mike

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 11:54 AM

From the guy who wrote the previous charter...

Although it has never been written into the charter previously the Competition Committee has never allowed changes to the field type between games. Besides, the grounds crew union won't put up with trying to grow tall grass on concrete over the span of one week.

However, if the commish wants to change that tradition he certainly can. :ninja:

#23 Gaixo

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 12:20 PM

Nah, I don't want to change the rule in mid-season, even if it might save us all from playing on plush turf.

Edited by Gaixo, 06 February 2009 - 12:22 PM.


#24 Gaixo

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 03:43 PM

Want to go over a few proposed changes for everyone to think about. We can talk about them at the meeting(s), too, but I know some people donít get to those or might want to think about these beforehand.

Shortened Season in Norfolk

Mike K. and Chuck both expressed reservations about playing an 8-game schedule with only four teams, so I thought we could just play half a season (four games) in Norfolk. This would allow us to keep a presence in the shop, and keep everyone playing, but wouldnít turn things into a drag by forcing the same matchups to be played three (or more, if you count the playoffs) times in one season. The only real downside would be the lack of experience for the Norfolk teams, but maybe that will give Portsmouth a chance to take the championship back. ;)

I mentioned the idea to Chuck and Kiri already, and theyíre down, so if Mike B. is on board and no one in Portsmouth objects this should be a go. The one things to be decided is whether all 4 teams automatically make the playoffs, or if only the top 2 proceed automatically to the store finals.



Post-Season All Star Game

This is Ericís idea, and I think itís a good one. Itís pretty self-explanatory. Basically, after the championship has been played, everyone gets together like we do for the Orcidas Challenge. Each coach brings a certain number of players, all star teams are formed and a game (or half) is played. Eric mentioned the possibility of having it be store vs. store, but I think we both agreed that it would be much more plausible to just have it be division vs. division. I think store vs. store would be more fun, but it would probably be hard to get people together and decide where to meet and stuff.

Some rules would have to be worked out, obviously. Weíd need a way to decide whose figures move first and all of that, but I think we could figure it out. Anyway, we would have all of this season to think about it.



Cash prizes/Buy-in

Bryan, the manager of ACIII, mentioned the idea of having coaches buy into the league, and that money going into a pot that would be awarded to the champion as store credit. I had this idea myself a while back, but thought it might scare people off and change the tone of the league for the worse. In other words: I donít want anyone feeling like they canít afford to play, and I donít want people turning into poor sports because money is involved. On the other hand, the chance of winning a prize might make the league more popular, and hopefully weíre mature enough not to kill each other over a relatively small amount of money.

Iím not strongly in favor of or opposed to the idea, so Iíd like to hear other opinions. It wouldnít happen until next season at the earliest, so this is another item we have some time to consider. There is the issue of smaller/newer teams having less chance to win, but I have some ideas for staggering the buy-in amount if we get to that stage of discussion.





SoÖI think thatís it (actually I think Iím forgetting something, but oh well). Tell me what you all think, please.

#25 Viking Mike

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 05:02 PM

Norfolk Short Season

As all the teams there are going to be returning veteran teams it shouldn't be too bad. I'd suggest starting their half-season after the Portsmouth Store's Orcidas Challenge so everyone hits the playoffs at the same time. Yes, that means there will be no Norfolk Orcidas Challenge...

I'd also say that the shiny clothes are returned at the start of the season since there won't be as much of a 'crystal' presence there. ;)

All Star Game

While it sounds great and we used to do it way back in the day, I discontinued the All Star game due to nobody submitting players for the 'honor'. Of course, I scheduled the All Star game at the same time as the League Championship game to give the other coaches something to do... but it usually ended up being the #2 teams of both Conferences who committed to play, which didn't make for much excitement or 'All Star' quality.

If Nate and Eric want to coordinate a revival then I'm OK with that. BTW: the way we did it was each participating coach got a quarter's worth of total team control time. :D

Pay to Play

I'm kinda opposed to this idea. Believe it or not one of the attractive features of Blood Bowl in the stores is the fact that you only need a dozen and a half figures to play. Thirty dollars (the price of one plastic Regiment Box to build players out of) or only a little bit more if you want the 'official' minis and you're all set to play. Adding a cash donation on top of that, even if it is to provide a prize for the league winner, isn't something I think we need to bother with.

#26 Gaixo

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 06:59 PM

Norfolk Short Season

As all the teams there are going to be returning veteran teams it shouldn't be too bad. I'd suggest starting their half-season after the Portsmouth Store's Orcidas Challenge so everyone hits the playoffs at the same time. Yes, that means there will be no Norfolk Orcidas Challenge...

I'd also say that the shiny clothes are returned at the start of the season since there won't be as much of a 'crystal' presence there. ;)

I was planning on having one game every week, which would still have the season ending at the right time but would keep BB in the shop every week. I'm not married to that idea, though. The Challenge could still be suspended for lack of players...

#27 Viking Mike

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 09:12 AM

I was planning on having one game every week, which would still have the season ending at the right time but would keep BB in the shop every week. I'm not married to that idea, though. The Challenge could still be suspended for lack of players...

*shrugs* that could work too. ;)

Maybe, in that case, the Orcidas Clothing Line could be convinced to have the Challenge at Norfolk after all.

#28 Ralphriverrat

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Posted 14 April 2009 - 11:24 AM

Want to go over a few proposed changes for everyone to think about. We can talk about them at the meeting(s), too, but I know some people donít get to those or might want to think about these beforehand.

Shortened Season in Norfolk

Shroter season in Norfolk, no biggie for me, just less experience for those teams ;) .




Post-Season All Star Game

I'd be willing to help out with this in P-town, as it was my idea.



Cash prizes/Buy-in

I'd be opposed to this as well. As Mike said, the draw of the game is the few models and relitive inexpensive "army". Adding a fee to play would disuade me, actually would make me drop out and play for fun.



#29 Armorer

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 01:31 AM

I say no to the Cash prizes/Buy-in idea.

Many games are not played- forfited because one player or both can not make it in. Sometimes this is due to not caring about the league, other times it is because of work scheduels or transportation issue, or other complications. Sometimes work or family emergencies prevent people from playing schedueled games. Loosing money over that is just wrong IMHO.

#30 Gaixo

Gaixo

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 06:55 AM

Ok, so as things stand...

no objections to shortened schedule,
All-Star Game tentatively agreed upon,
buy-in declined.

So I didn't see any opinions on this bit:

The one thing to be decided is whether all 4 teams automatically make the playoffs, or if only the top 2 proceed automatically to the store finals.

I suppose I'm leaning toward letting all four teams in. Mainly so the teams have a chance to catch up on SPPs a little bit. The obvious downside is that it turns the actual season into a bunch of exhibition games.





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