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Blood Bowl ABBL Rules Discussion

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#31 Viking Mike

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Posted 15 April 2009 - 04:35 PM

So I didn't see any opinions on this bit:

The one thing to be decided is whether all 4 teams automatically make the playoffs, or if only the top 2 proceed automatically to the store finals.

I suppose I'm leaning toward letting all four teams in. Mainly so the teams have a chance to catch up on SPPs a little bit. The obvious downside is that it turns the actual season into a bunch of exhibition games.

Whoops, missed commenting on that one. ;)

To keep in synch with the Portsmouth League I'd say have all four in.

Otherwise I'd only let the top two play for the honor.

Edited by Viking Mike, 15 April 2009 - 04:36 PM.


#32 Gaixo

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Posted 26 April 2009 - 09:32 AM

Oh, I guess we never decided anything about changing pitch surfaces. If no one objects, I saw we allow teams to do it as often as they want for 50,000 GC a pop. That way it could offer some strategic possibilities, but is probably too expensive and hassly for anyone to really use the option regularly.

EDIT:
Also, for the Norfolk teams: a bye week (meaning a week in which your team never had a game scheduled, as opposed to a forfeit by either side) does NOT count as a game for the purpose of Miss Next Game injuries. This is probably obvious, but I just wanted to make sure.

Edited by Gaixo, 27 April 2009 - 11:00 AM.


#33 Gaixo

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Posted 11 July 2009 - 08:02 PM

This is my proposal for the new charter:
Attached File  Charter_and_Guidelines_2009.doc   47.5K   3 downloads

It was mainly a reorganization and update of previously decided rulings, but here are the possibly contentious items in order of the amount of outrage they're likely to generate (most to least).

1) Name "change"
I'd like to take "Games & Comics" out of the league name. I just find it a little bit awkward and think that everyone playing in the league already knows about the shop.

2) Plush terrain change
Plush terrain is a little bit too safe. In this proposal it would no longer help against Claw, Stab, and Chainsaw attacks.

4. Playoff limit on coaches with multiple teams
Mike made a post last season about his two teams meeting in the playoffs, and having someone else coach one of them. I'm sure he was joking, but I want to make sure no one sees this as a possibility. I've played in several leagues in which coaches are allowed to have multiple teams (including FUMBBL, in which this comes up a lot) and the solution is always to have the coach in question choose one of his teams to eliminate. Often they can't even have two teams in the playoffs. I don't think its necessary to go that far, but I'm up for that if people prefer. Right now this only applies to two coaches in the league, but


So...let the spirited debate commence. If you find anything else I've tried to slip in there, please bring it up. I wrote 95% of this several weeks ago, and may be forgetting something else that I've changed.

Edited by Gaixo, 15 July 2009 - 06:32 AM.


#34 Viking Mike

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Posted 12 July 2009 - 09:03 PM

1) But, but, but it's Traditional! ;)

Nah, I've no problem with droping the G&C from the league title.

2) Claw, Stab and Chainsaw I could agree with not having Plush count since they are 'off the dirt' types of skills. Just as Astrogranite doesn't count when a player is thrown off the pitch I can agree that those three should avoid the penalty.

Foul is an 'on the dirt' skill so it should still provide the extra armor safety.

Astrogranite is fine the way it is. :P

3) Um, the reason we made Thick Skull a 4+ die roll was because we do use Astrogranite, which the rule does not account for.

With Astrogranite and the 'new' Thick Skull you have a 2/3 chance of being sent off the pitch - 7 is a KO, 8 is safe, 9 is a KO.

Stunty on Astrogranite is something that doesn't need to be dealt with since the little bastards get hampered enough as it is. However, if the league wanted to say Stunty guys on Astrogranite are KO'd on a 6, 7, 8 or 9 I suppose I could live with it. :P

4) Actually, I was semi-serious. One of my teams is always 'straightforward' while the other is 'kinky' so I could hand over the vanilla to play my chocolate. However, I also have no problem - if there are enough teams to make a deeper playoff picture - with choosing one team to 'go all the way' while the other lives in 'might have been' status.

#35 Gaixo

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 07:57 PM

Sorry for my brief absence.

Plush terrain
I actually threw the foul bit in at the last minute, and agree with you about retracting it.

Thick Skull
I understand that using the new version of Thick Skull weakens the skill slightly on Astrogranite, but I don't see it as much of an issue. As I have 13 thick headed players on one of my teams and 3 on the other, I would suffer as much as anyone under the change. But dwarves (and chaos dwarves even moreso) already benefit from Astrogranite as much as any other team, so I don't think a slight disadvantage is a big deal. Plus it just feels weird to continually grandfather a rule that gets older all the time, though I suppose that's what house rules are for.

Two teams in the playoffs
Like you said, neither of our secondary teams have a very good chance of making it to the finals (actually, I guess your kinky have made it twice in a row, but the point stands). So I don't see an issue with allowing both a coach's teams into the playoffs, I just think one of them should bow out should the time come when they're actually expected to play one another. You know what I mean? So like if The Raiders beat the Lizards to make the final and the Vkings beat my dwarves, you'd get to choose the Vikings to continue and the Lizards would take the Raiders' place.
Too complex? Like we've said, it would be so uncommon that the more vague guideline in the charter should suffice until it comes up.

#36 Viking Mike

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 09:38 AM

*personal soapbox*

One of the things I was less than pleased about with the last rules review (LRB 5) was the removal of many of the 'chance' aspects of the game. While the mathing of Shadowing instead of rolling off is betterish, making Thick Skull a 'this or that' was very disappointing.

Random luck has to be kept in the game to help lesser skilled coaches overcome more proficient team leaders.

*off soapbox*

#37 Ralphriverrat

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 11:17 AM

Most of that I agree with, with the exception of the ruling on Plush. Chainsaw and stab don't require you to roll block dice and knock the opponent down where the cushing of the grass can effect the outcome. Claw does require the block dice be rolled to come into play for the armor roll so I feel that it should still count the plush bonus, just as a foul has the opponent on the ground would count the plush surface. Just my 2 cents, not that I play on plush or anything ;) .

#38 Gaixo

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 12:44 PM

*personal soapbox*

One of the things I was less than pleased about with the last rules review (LRB 5) was the removal of many of the 'chance' aspects of the game. While the mathing of Shadowing instead of rolling off is betterish, making Thick Skull a 'this or that' was very disappointing.

Random luck has to be kept in the game to help lesser skilled coaches overcome more proficient team leaders.

*off soapbox*

I actually like the old Shadowing better. :P

But, you're more impassioned about Thick Skull than I am, so if there are no other opinions we can revert to the old version.

Most of that I agree with, with the exception of the ruling on Plush. Chainsaw and stab don't require you to roll block dice and knock the opponent down where the cushing of the grass can effect the outcome. Claw does require the block dice be rolled to come into play for the armor roll so I feel that it should still count the plush bonus, just as a foul has the opponent on the ground would count the plush surface. Just my 2 cents, not that I play on plush or anything ;) .

This one I feel more strongly about. And not because I plan to have a dozen claws on my Chaos team or anything. :P

Under the rewritten version, all knock down armor rolls are taken as if AVs are +1. So, your Saurus count as having AV 10, even against Claw attacks. But Claws still penetrate on a roll of 8 so it doesn't matter.

#39 Ralphriverrat

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:32 PM

I actually like the old Shadowing better. :P

But, you're more impassioned about Thick Skull than I am, so if there are no other opinions we can revert to the old version.


This one I feel more strongly about. And not because I plan to have a dozen claws on my Chaos team or anything. ;)

Under the rewritten version, all knock down armor rolls are taken as if AVs are +1. So, your Saurus count as having AV 10, even against Claw attacks. But Claws still penetrate on a roll of 8 so it doesn't matter.


Well :P yeah, there is that whole break on an 8 thing.

#40 Viking Mike

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 03:11 PM

Which I'd been playing my claws as needing a nine (+1 AV for that effect). If we rule that Claws are not effected by Plush then I'll certainly be a much happier camper (and puttting claws on my rats for their next set of skills because claws on a goblin are silly).

#41 Gaixo

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 03:23 PM

Well, I'd like to see Claw get chosen more often. Right now it's always secondary to Mighty Blow (because MB offers an equal chance of casualty on AV8, and a better chance on AV7 or below), but the minor buff it gets from negating plush would make it a more difficult choice between the two skills.

#42 Gaixo

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 06:33 AM

Revised charter uploaded in the original post. Mike, if you can put that in the official pinned thread, I'd appreciate it.

#43 Viking Mike

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 04:39 PM

Done and Done. Looking forward to a new season of fun!

#44 Gaixo

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 08:02 AM

Traditionally, has the league used the rule on LRB page 29, which states that a forfeiting team has a 50% chance of losing each player with 51 or more SPPs? It hasn't come up since I've been in the league, but I think it's about to, and I didn't want to tell someone he has to get rid of his best player before checking with everyone.

It's not listed as an optional rule, and our charter doesn't mention it, so it seems like it would be in effect. But it also seems a bit harsh for a fixed schedule league.

#45 Viking Mike

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 10:47 AM

Yes, it does come into effect when one coach deliberately - and by that I mean he contacts his opponent and says, "I can't/won't play you." - gives up a game to his opponent.

Having it apply to Double Losses due to missed timing would be at the discretion of the Commissioner.

Ending the game early (before the 8th turn of the second half) does not count for the concession penalties.

#46 Gaixo

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 11:12 AM

In this case, one party has attempted to contact his opponent and the commissioner, whereas the other seems to have done neither. I would think that qualifies as the first option. Hopefully the situation will resolve itself quickly and not be a big deal.

As to your last point, the book says that conceding during a match does draw the penalty, unless the conceding team was down to 2 players. Hopefully no one will ever want to storm off in the middle of a game, regardless.

#47 Viking Mike

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 12:55 PM

To clarify the last point, both coaches agree that it would be pointless to continue play - usually with only one or two turns remaining and a two point deficit to make up - so they both decide that instead of setting players on the field and 'taking a knee' by each saying 'turn-over' to just go straight to the post-game sequence.

It has been customary for such to be allowed. Obviously if one coach is unable to field enough players to allow them to 'take a knee' it would be a concession per the rulebook unless their opponent is generous enough to not force the issue.

#48 Gaixo

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 01:02 PM

Oh yeah, I wouldn't even consider that a concession or anything that would need to come to the league's attention.

#49 Gaixo

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Posted 27 July 2009 - 06:26 PM

Aaaand it turns out that the original issue above was never an issue, just some lack/miscommunication.

#50 Gaixo

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 12:33 PM

It has been brought to my attention that the wording of the Plush Terrain house rule may be misleading. The +1 AV bonus is applied to any armor test caused by a fall to the ground, as well as fouls. So dodges and failed GFIs do activate this bonus. Stab, chainsaw, and being pushed into the crowd (as well as some card effects, maybe) are pretty much the only times the bonus does not apply.

#51 Ophidian

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 06:36 PM

It has been brought to my attention that the wording of the Plush Terrain house rule may be misleading. The +1 AV bonus is applied to any armor test caused by a fall to the ground, as well as fouls. So dodges and failed GFIs do activate this bonus. Stab, chainsaw, and being pushed into the crowd (as well as some card effects, maybe) are pretty much the only times the bonus does not apply.


Interestingly enough, on checking the rulebook later, both failing a Dodge and failing a Go For It, DO say the player is "Knocked Down", same wording as Blocks. Didn't expect that so unless there is another exception, the League rules wording is actually correct!

Now, a Foul doesn't knock a player down, but I suppose the logic there is that it is harder to pound someone on a soft field than on concrete (for example).

Of course, this clarification does work in my favor actually... :cylon:

#52 Viking Mike

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Posted 16 August 2009 - 10:48 PM

Not surprisingly, we looked at all those things when we created the plush rule. :cylon:

And yes, it is harder to pound someone into soft turf. :ninja:

#53 Gaixo

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 12:55 PM

Heck, last season it wasn't so much a Norfolk league as a Norfolk/VB league.
Seems like a major percentage of the matches went on at VB.
If anyone shows up to sign for VB can we roll the two together?
Or do we have players who absolutely CANNOT play at VB or at Norfolk or a Portsmouth?
I could do any of them, do we have folks who can't?

I don't think Portsmouth should have to be lumped in. They all meet on Wednesday nights, get 90% of their games played at that time, and at least one of them doesn't have crosstown transportation. I don't want to speak for them, but I think they're content with the current situation.

As far as I know (and that qualifier applies to this whole paragraph), one Norfolk coach can't make it to Virginia Beach reliably. There are two more that prefer Norfolk (including myself here), and three that prefer V.B. I don't know Dark Ghoul's preferences, and assume that Mike B. is neutral. So there are three obvious possibilities:
1)Leave things much as they are, and continue to call it the Norfolk Conference. I was already planning to redistribute the divisions so that the VB guys are together (assuming that Richard won't mind moving to the East and missing out on playing Chuck and I twice a season).
2)Do the same thing, except make up a goofy name like the NorBeach Conference so that AC2 doesn't feel slighted.
3)Have 2 conferences with only four teams in them. Interconference play would be possible, I guess. This would allow Virginia Beach to "represent," but would create a number of minor complications.

Those choices are arranged in my order of preference, but everyone feel free to speak up on the matter.



This is also the time to bring up rules issues that anyone may have. I know that Richard wanted to revisit Thick Skull again, and Mike thought that Conference Playoffs (meaning "Store Playoffs") should be on neutral turf. So if you guys want to present arguments on those topics or any others, let's have it.

#54 Viking Mike

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 05:48 PM

Regarding League Organization: The main thing these days about having three store divisions (Norfolk, Portsmouth and Virginia Beach) is that it makes the playoffs a bit tricky. That could be worked around with the defending championship store getting a bye as the other two teams fight for the right to challenge or having the top two teams from each store and two 'wild cards' from the entire league go into a 'tournament of champions' for the prize (my preference but it would draw out the post-season).

My main concern is making sure each store has a large enough player base to survive the season. I've often said I'd run a league as long as at least three others sign up (myself being the minimum fourth) but to be perfectly honest we'd need six teams at each store to keep any one player dropping out from wrecking the schedule too much.

Regarding Thick Skull: what is Richard's question or concern? Thick Skull is intended to give the Knocked Out player a 50/50 chance to remain on the field. The original rule, which is what we have house ruled, was to roll a d6 and 4+ means your player is only stunned. In the most recent rules review they eliminated the die roll and said with thick skull an injury roll of 8 is stun but 9 is Knocked Out. That is fine if you're only playing on regular grass (or our Plush Turf) but what happens on Astro-Granite where 7, 8 and 9 are Knock Outs?

On Astro-Granite you'd have 7 and 9 being Knock Out results while 8 is a stun. That degrades the skill's effectiveness from 1/2 to 1/3 which isn't very fair in my opinion. Continuing to allow the D6 roll gives the skill the same effect (50% chance of only being Stunned) which the incresed KO chance of Astrogranite being the factor to see if more Thick Skull players are taken off the pitch.

I think Thick Skull is fine as it is.

Regarding Playoff Turf Conditions: It was actually written into the League Charter that once you were past the 'Wild Card' Games (Store and League Championships) that the games would be played on Neutral ground. Finally getting to play a Store Championship game with Nate I've learned that Norfolk hasn't been doing that. *shrug*

I'd rather adjust the rules to the way it is being played and suggest that we modify the Charter to only require the League Championship game to be played on Regular Grass. It extends the benefit of home field advantage and I've no problem with that.

The Orcidas Challenge and Pro Bowl games have the field already defined in their sections and do not need to be considered for this.

Edited by Viking Mike, 09 October 2009 - 05:49 PM.


#55 Gaixo

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Posted 09 October 2009 - 06:52 PM

Before putting too much thought into a revamped playoff format, I would want to wait and see if there's actually enough interest to require us to split up the Nor/VB teams. I enjoy our current playoff format, and would like to stick with it if at all possible. I agree that six teams ought to be the minimum at any one store.
(also, to clarify, my "Option 3" above would pretty much just be a superficial change. meaning that it would still be eight teams making the playoffs, with only two each coming from the smaller conferences)

Re:turf
I definitely like it with the league final being the only neutral venue match, as it gives the top teams something to play for in the late weeks of the season. Incidentally, Eric and Chris played their division final on plush, so I guess I corrupted them. ;)

Right now the charter says:

The team with the best regular season record is the home team in the first two games [of the playoffs], while the Final is played on a neutral grass field.

That is a bit of awkward wording, I have to admit (pretty sure that's my phrasing). Changing "best" to "better" and adding "League" before "Final" might be enough to fix it, though. The little chart in the newsletter also tells you what to do, but best not to count on everyone downloading that.

#56 Ophidian

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 12:31 AM

Count me in for the final being the only de facto neutral turf if there is a fair way to decide home field for semi-finals.

I'd like Thick Skull to read as the rule book has it mainly for consistency, but also because the "standard rule has it saving you 1/2 the time, but granite and that rule would only save you 1 in 3" is a bit of a falacy on two counts.
Rolls of 7, 8, and 9 do not have equal odds of occurring. Save on a 8 is better than 1 in 3 for granite and better than 1 in 2 for plush/normal.
And granite is _supposed_ to hurt, why make a special ruling to spare certain teams from that?
That said, switching it to 7 on granite is only stunned if you have Thick Skull would seem both consistent and fair to me.
One less die roll to make, no extra special compensation for the teams that are starting with a skill that works fine by the RAW even with the odd fields.
Then again it just occurred to me that Thick Skulled figures are worse off under the 50/50 rule we're using than they would be under the RAW on non-granite, so I think I can rescind my objection.)

Some rules I would like to bring up for discussion:

A) Calling your Action before you start moving your figure.
That's how the RAW has it, but I've found that some of the experienced and or looser players to consider it unimportant to bother.
I feel that if we are going to play that you don't need to call your Actions it should actually go into the League rules, not be a player X does that while player Y doesn't situation. Now a good argument has almost been made for not calling Pass and Hand-Off, but consistency again would lead towards calling all or nothing.
Note that with not calling you could run and then decide Blitz or Foul, or you could decided Blitz after making an initial "Block" without having moved yet.
(Nicely letting you decide if you want to make it a Blitz based on the results of the hit.)
That seems fine, but where I oppose the whole idea is that some figures most roll to act at all and have to declare Actions before the roll and lose them if they fail the roll.
IOW, having the other figures not declare is a bit discriminatory.
Now the figures that have to roll could be changed to "declare if you make the roll" and not lose anything if you fail.
That I'd consider fair.
Although Wild Animal would need some kind of work around.
Easiest way is just use the RAW.
Even the people who don't see a need to declare before movement usually do so anyway.

;) Consistency on Illegal Procedure.
Some coaches are fine with chucking this rule and playing a friendlier game, while some are gung ho about keeping the letter of the law as is.
As long as both coaches agree to a method before the game no problem, but I saw a few games where a player would be shocked that the loss of the reroll was called.
And I've seen others where one player assumed they'd be called, but at the first op to do so their opponent said not to worry about the reroll as long as they fixed the clock.
Easy solution here is decide on a league default that may be overridden if both coaches agree.
I don't personally like the rule, it tends to cause unneeded animosity, but it is RAW, so defaulting either way makes sense to me.
Probably easiest to declare a league default of the RAW unless both coaches agree otherwise pre-game.

C) MVP's for fill ins
I forget which way we were playing this but some options in the rulebook allow rerolling MVP for players who don't survive the game, for Mercenaries, and for Star Players. It's a real bummer watching those 5 points walk away with a player who won't be using them, so I'd love to see us use the reroll options on these.

D) Orcidas winnings
Following the reality test of similar real world events the players do tend to get something for showing up, and while yes the MVP awards are nice, it wouldn't hurt to toss a cash bonus on there would it? Let the players take, say 10,000 home with them while the winner would get 20,000. Just an idea.

E) Bounties
Would someone explain the appeal of this?
So far I just see it as one more source of animosity, and a way for high value teams to ditch their gold in ways low experience ones can't really take advantage of. IOW, if anything, IMO, it discourages the induction of new teams as they can be victims of this far more easily than beneficiaries.

Edited by Ophidian, 10 October 2009 - 01:10 AM.


#57 Gaixo

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 01:25 AM

Count me in for the final being the only de facto neutral turf if there is a fair way to decide home field for semi-finals.

It's based on overall record, tiebreaker being divisional record, next tiebreaker being touchdown differential, final tiebreaker being alphabetical order.

A) Calling your Action before you start moving your figure.
B ) Consistency on Illegal Procedure.

In both cases the rule is the rule. Calling handoffs is obviously less important than calling blitzes, but I've recently heard good arguments in favor of the former. I don't call people for IP or failure to declare (except on blitzes, which really is a whole different story), but I am totally against writing them out of the rules and in the future I'll endeavor to remain more calm when people call them on me.

C) MVP's for fill ins
I forget which way we were playing this but some options in the rulebook allow rerolling MVP for players who don't survive the game, for Mercenaries, and for Star Players. It's a real bummer watching those 5 points walk away with a player who won't be using them, so I'd love to see us use the reroll options on these.

We don't reroll them. For me, it's a very "realistic" thing when an MVP goes to a dead player. Doesn't he deserve it? With mercenaries and stars, I see it as a minor hazard that comes with using them. I also think that any tampering with the MVP rules favors those players that have a hard time earning SPPs through normal means (zombies, blockers, saurus, etc.).

E) Bounties
Would someone explain the appeal of this?
So far I just see it as one more source of animosity, and a way for high value teams to ditch their gold in ways low experience ones can't really take advantage of. IOW, if anything, IMO, it discourages the induction of new teams as they can be victims of this far more easily than beneficiaries.

In the past four seasons, zero bounties have been collected. It's really for flavor and little else. Big teams don't really have any reason to "ditch" gold, you know. When your value gets up over two million it's hard to earn any money at all, so there's not much sense in throwing it away. If anything, it offers small teams a chance to earn money even if they can't win a game. I also doubt that it really alters player behavior very much. For example, people are going to be taking shots at your kroxigor whether there's a bounty on it or not. On the other hand, a coach who wants to win the game would target Chuck's best players, instead of fouling a relatively useless lineman because there's a bounty on him. Maybe in late game situations it becomes more of a factor, but I still don't think it's a big deal. Personally, I'd rather a coach was placing a bounty instead of buying ten cheerleaders.

#58 Ophidian

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 01:08 PM

I don't call people for IP or failure to declare (except on blitzes, which really is a whole different story), but I am totally against writing them out of the rules and in the future I'll endeavor to remain more calm when people call them on me.


Like I've said, I can play either way on the IP, but it should be openly known before the game starts.
So we'll go with, if no one says anything in advance, we use the RAW.
That works.
(Or the first coach with the opportunity to call IP can decide then, works as well also I would guess.)

We don't reroll them. For me, it's a very "realistic" thing when an MVP goes to a dead player. Doesn't he deserve it?


Point taken, depending on how he died, did he take a heroic hit, or make a stupid sacrifice?
I guess I mainly object to the randomness of the MVP rule; it doesn't really mirror "reality" but I see the down side to coaches simply choosing.

I also think that any tampering with the MVP rules favors those players that have a hard time earning SPPs through normal means (zombies, blockers, saurus, etc.).


It does, which I see as a good thing. These guys are out there doing their jobs but don't get better at it?
The slight increase in the chance that they'd learn something makes sense to me, rather than the agility monkeys constantly running up the SPP's. OTOH, the SPP system as is does tend to mirror the "stars" of real world games.
Not so much in a skill sense, but definitely in a fame sense.

In the past four seasons, zero bounties have been collected. It's really for flavor and little else.


Sounds like s good reason to ditch some unneeded bookkeeping. ;)

Big teams don't really have any reason to "ditch" gold, you know.


Yet they are doing it, so there must be some "reason".
Again, new teams can't really jump on this bandwagon, they can just get run over by it.

When your value gets up over two million it's hard to earn any money at all, so there's not much sense in throwing it away.


And yet teams just under that 2M mark are doing it, so they must be thinking there is some logic.

If anything, it offers small teams a chance to earn money even if they can't win a game.


"Big" teams have a better chance as their blockers likely have more skills to affect the die rolls.

I also doubt that it really alters player behavior very much. For example, people are going to be taking shots at your kroxigor whether there's a bounty on it or not.


Further evidence that it's not needed. Especially since it's inconsistently applied. All else being equal the Vikings' Troll should have a HUGE bounty. But the argument is made that people will want him down anyway so no bonus. Like I said, the arbitrariness increases an animosity factor. Seriously try to flip the POV on it. You play your first game for your new team and suddenly have the largest extant bounty on one of your players and no other player all season gets an equally high one even if he is a tougher target? Looks like it occurs on whims, not strategy.

On the other hand, a coach who wants to win the game would target Chuck's best players, instead of fouling a relatively useless lineman because there's a bounty on him.


As you said, newer teams can really use that money, while big teams shouldn't care.
Newer teams already have a serious handicap reaching post season so win/loss isn't a major deal.
But collecting the money to build up is.
And why put a bounty on a "useless" character?
It'll just lose you funds without creating any strategic advantages, right?

Maybe in late game situations it becomes more of a factor, but I still don't think it's a big deal. Personally, I'd rather a coach was placing a bounty instead of buying ten cheerleaders.


How many do NFL teams have? :lol:
I'd see it as more logical to set the funds aside for when you need to replace/add a player, or buy a "critical" Inducement for a game. (Extra apothecaries are often useful, and would represent a good money sink. Extra Training is great is you haven't maxed rerolls. Bloodweiser Babes nicely keep your players coming back. And star players or an appropriate Merc can fill holes in ability, or add a stacked discounted Star.)
Yeah, the escalating cheerleader thing could get silly, but it's also kinda silly that everyone seems to stop at three.
The battle for those extra rerolls isn't usually decisive (or common) but it can certainly have a big influence.
And escalating cheerleaders are going to slam you into that spiraling expenses thing, where you could instead set the money aside until needed. And as your players get more skilled you may need to drop some of the ladies to cover the increased value of the players rather than go further into "I never get winnings" territory. That should balance out, but I admit I haven't seen much of that high level of play.

#59 Gaixo

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Posted 10 October 2009 - 08:07 PM

Bounties build a sense of rivalry and add a roleplaying element to the game. I put a bounty on your kroxigor because he killed one of my guys, that's all. If I was going after scary players, I'd have put one on your AG4 skink instead. I honestly don't think that personal animosity comes into it at all. Eric and Gene are pretty good friends, as I understand it, but the Lizards put a bounty on one of the ogres because it killed a star skink. It's just having fun and being make believe angry. I'd be honored if someone put a bounty on one of my players. In fact, I'm a little bit sad that one of my slayers got twenty-five casualties and didn't draw one. BTW, the real reason I didn't put a bounty on Yhetee is because I was too broke at the time.

#60 Ophidian

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Posted 11 October 2009 - 02:36 PM

I'd be honored if someone put a bounty on one of my players.


Like I said, some of us who might want to are too busy team building to do so.
Back to, big teams can do this, small one can't.
Actually, I doubt I'd ever do it; waste of funds, and I'd want to kill the offending git myself in a rematch...





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